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Harp and Hammer:
Celtic and Germanic Heathen Dialogue
How much stock do you folks put into the common Proto-Indo-European… 
30th-Sep-2006 02:56 pm
How much stock do you folks put into the common Proto-Indo-European mythology as the reason for the Gaulish/Germanic connections...
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30th-Sep-2006 11:07 pm (UTC)
I think that both cultures remain strongly rooted in their Proto-Indo-European sources; but I also think that there was a lot of interaction between them, especially in the LaTéne period - the rise of the cultus of Wotan/Odin out of Lugus worship, and the Matronae/Disir connections are ample proof of late interaction.
1st-Oct-2006 12:06 am (UTC)
Wōdanaz cult does seem pretty strongly related to Lugus and there seems to be many similarities between the two, although the cults definitely seemed to me to drift, but don't obviously have any Proto-Indo-European counterpart.

Tyr does, however, seem pretty related to The Dagha and Zues, Dyues Pitar, Dis Pater, etc.
1st-Oct-2006 10:38 am (UTC)
both Lugus and Wōðanaz seem to be, along with Apollo, variants of the wolf-god*. that god seems, as far as i can tell, to have originated in the Western IE groups after the East/West IE split. at least, i've seen no Indo-Iranian candidates which are similar.


*this is an idea i developed as i was reading Apollo the Wolf-God by Gershenson and noticed that i might as easily be reading about Lugus. the Lugus/Wōðanaz connection is discussed in Lady With a Mead Cup by Enright, though the details in Enright's thesis have been subject to some discussion (eg The One-Eyed God by Kershaw - or so i'm told, i haven't had a chance to read it yet). still, the central idea that they are very similar is not argued against by anyone of whom i've heard.
1st-Oct-2006 06:03 pm (UTC)
That is an interesting point -- particularly since much of the wolf references to Apollo were sort of softened by classical times.
2nd-Oct-2006 01:44 am (UTC)
also interesting in the present context are the animals associated with Apollo: the wolf, the raven, the dolphin, the seal, the mouse.
2nd-Oct-2006 04:45 pm (UTC)
I pretty much accept it as one reason for connection between the two cultures, esp. with regard to linguistic connections (your note about Tyr, below, is one example), but it's not the whole story. Trade and other cultural interactions (as evidenced in Nordic grave goods with possible Celtic origins, such as the Oseberg 'Buddha Bucket') kept on taking place long after whatever split resulted in the linguistic differences.
31st-Oct-2006 01:30 pm (UTC)
[[How much stock do you folks put into the common Proto-Indo-European mythology as the reason for the Gaulish/Germanic connections.]]
** I consider both the PIE and IE constructs to be viable windows into the Germanic and Celtic weltenschauung. Having read JP Mallory's 'In Search of the Indo-Europeans', I must concur with his conclusions regarding the numerous migrations, and subsequent cultural influences. Namely, that the PIE and IE threads are so intricately woven into the European mythos that they are virtually indiscernable, let alone extractable.

Live Deliberately!
Yngona
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